Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/pc/text/spacedig/v15_2/v15no288.txt

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Date: Tue,  6 Oct 92 05:02:53
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V15 #288
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Tue,  6 Oct 92       Volume 15 : Issue 288

Today's Topics:
                 Asteroid Toutatis Closes In On Earth
                   Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Don't forget  Other Guy(was Re: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both?)
          Is Mars 94 on track? (was Re: Mars Observer info?)
                     Mars Observer orbit (2 msgs)
            Pioneer Venus Out of Fuel, Orbit Deteroriating
                    Population here and elsewhere?
            Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both? (3 msgs)
                      what use is Fred? (2 msgs)
                    what use is Freedom? (2 msgs)

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Date: 6 Oct 92 05:21:44 GMT
From: Ron Baalke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Asteroid Toutatis Closes In On Earth
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro

Paula Cleggett-Haleim
Headquarters, Washington, D.C.                 October 5, 1992
(Phone:  [phone])

Jim Doyle
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
(Phone:  [phone])

RELEASE:  92-164

ASTEROID'S ORBIT "CLOSES IN" ON EARTH

     One of the largest near-Earth objects, an asteroid named
"Toutatis," will make a close Earth approach on Dec. 8, 1992,
passing by at about 2.2 million miles (3.6 million kilometers)
distance.

     Dr. Donald Yeomans, Head of the Near Earth Object Center
at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., said
the object, formally known as Asteroid 4179 Toutatis, passes
Earth less than one degree above Earth's orbital plane every 4
years, making it an excellent object for study.  The asteroid,
at 2 miles (3.5 kilometers) diameter, is one of the largest to
cross the Earth's orbit on a regular basis.

     Yeomans said the ground-based viewing conditions will be
excellent for infrared optical and radar observations just
before, during and well after the close Earth passage, and he
notes that astronomers in many areas of the world
simultaneously will study the body using several different
techniques.

     Toutatis again will make close Earth approaches in 1996
and 2000.  In 2004, it will come as close as about four Earth-
Moon distances or about a million miles (about 1.6 million
kilometers).  Its orbit takes it almost to the distance of
Jupiter's orbit before the sun's gravitational attraction
pulls it back.

     The approach of Toutatis this year and the one in 2004
represent the two closest Earth passages of any known asteroid
for the next 30 years, said Yeomans.

     Toutatis was discovered Jan. 4, 1989, by Astronomer
Christian Pollas at Caussols, France, and was named after a
Gallic deity called "protector of the tribe."

- end -
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Einstein's brain is stored
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | in a mason jar in a lab
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | in Wichita, Kansas.

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 92 21:03:00 GMT
From: University Space Society <[e-mail]>
Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Newsgroups: sci.space

References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: USENET News System <[e-mail]>
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: judy.uh.edu
Source-Info:  Sender is really [e-mail]
Source-Info:  Sender is really [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Shari L Brooks) writes...
>
>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] writes (in response to Mary Schafer's
>post decrying the WWII actions leading up to the creation/manufacture of the
>V-2):
> [stuff deleted]
>I fail to see how the actions of these others have any bearing whatsoever
>on the actions Van Braun did or did not do whilst still in Nazi Germany.
>If people, corporations or governments managed to get away with what some
>would consider inexcusable crimes, that does not *excuse* the crimes of
>those who were caught.  Good grief, this is a lesson we all learned in
>elementary school.
>
>--
>If you blow fire against the wind, take care to not get the smoke in your eyes.
>      Big & Growly Dragon-monster        |       [e-mail]
>     ------> shari brooks <-------       |       [e-mail]
>                             All opinions are my own.

Like I said you missed the point. You deleted the part about concerning the
fact that nowhere has Von Braun or any of the team outside of Arthur Rudolf
EVER been accused of mistreating anoyone that worked for them.  Arthur Rudolf
who was was in a postition of authority at the Meittlework plant has been
accused but no evidence has ever been brought forth to support the accusations.
He was railroaded out of the US by the OSI by them threatening to take his
NASA pension. If you are so concerned about this why do you not look at
what the Israeli's have said about Rudolf which is that they are not interested
because he was not involved in the mistreatment. Now if you want to keep this
up either come up with some evidence that neither the US or Israeli government
has or just shut up because you do  not know what you are talking about.

Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 00:30:16 GMT
From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Don't forget  Other Guy(was Re: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both?)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (University Space Society) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] () writes...
>>    Von Braun is clearly an interesting and key historical
>>figure in space flight. Has a decent biography ever been
>>written? (in English?)
> Yes it has. I do not know if it has been published or not yet however.  It was
> written by Dr. Ernst Sthulinger who was one of Dr. Von Braun's deptutys.

Interesting; I didn't know this.

> Every single conference on space development that I have been to in the last
> four years (and I have been to a lot of them) ends up with a cry in your beer
> session about how we need another Von Braun.

I'd settle for another Korolev.

Wernher spent one night in jail;  Sergei spent years.

Wernher made unprecedented advances in rocketry while working
in two of the world's most technologically advanced countries.

Sergei did too, working in a nation with a far poorer infrastructure.
Granted, he had some A-4 technology to play with after the war, but so
did the Americans.

Coming from technologically behind, Sergei beat Wernher to the first
satellite, the first man in orbit, the first woman in orbit, the first
lunar flyby, the first space station, and other points in the "first"
game.

> In his life and his work he
> was always dedicated to seeing mankind freed from this little dirt ball we live
> on. I happen to know a number of the surviving Germans and each and every one
> of them have worked far beyond their retirements to continue to work for our
> planet having a space faring civilization.  [...]
> They worked and hijacked and shuffled funds to put a capability in place
> that allowed Kennedy to make his famous speech. It is funny that he made his
> speech only after the first successful firing of the F-1 engine, an engine
> program started in 1959. How many of you out there have that kind of character
> or commitment?

I am sure there are those behind the Rust Curtain who answer the same
description.  I for one would like to know more of their story.

> We went to the moon on the back of Von Braun's dream.

Absolutely true.  Politics being what they were, though, Von Braun
couldn't have done it without Korolev!

     O~~*           /_) ' / /   /_/ '  ,   ,  ' ,_  _           \|/
   - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / /   / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
 /       \                          (_) (_)                    / | \
 |       |     Bill Higgins   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
 \       /     Bitnet:     [e-mail]
   -   -       Internet:  [e-mail]
     ~         SPAN/Hepnet:      43011::HIGGINS

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 92 17:11:48 -0600
From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Is Mars 94 on track? (was Re: Mars Observer info?)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (David Knapp) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kristian Niininen) writes: (in *only* sci.space...shrug)
>
>>How big is the Mars Observer? (weight, length etc.)
>>What kinds of instruments it has?
> Also carries French radio system to support robotic missions by the Russians.
> Two Russian craft to lauch, one in '94, one in '96. MO supports these missions.
> MO will also serve as data relay from the Russian surface instruments.

Is Mars 94 still on track, or has it been delayed?  I missed the
relevant sessions at the World Space Congress.  An abstract submitted
to next week's the Division of Planetary Sciences meeting by Valery
Barsukov suggests there are still two missions flying in 1994 and
another in 1996.  He writes:

> Plans of Future Russian Planetary Missions [...]
>3. For the next astronomical window the launch of two spacecraft
>to Mars is planned: the first will provide the deployment of the
>balloon drifting in the atmosphere and the Mars rover landing on
>its surface; the second one is expected to deploy the Mars
>Network of small stations and further on to fly by a number of
>asteroids of the Main Belt and deploy penetrators on one of them.
>
>4. Phobos sample return to Earth is planned as the next future
>mission. Projects on Mars Sample Return and missions to Mercury
>via Venus are also being developed.

But I *also* heard (don't remember where) that
Barsukov died recently, so who knows whether this is up to date?

Back to Dave Knapp:

> The MOC (camera) has <*2* meter resolution! (loud gasp of amazement.) This will
> allow for detailed study of mass transport over the surface with seasonal
> variations. (and some very impressive photos indeed.)

It will also allow us to distinguish between different types of
Martian ICBMs and tanks.

(And, of course, find new, smaller, faces.)

Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey              | "I'm gonna keep on writing
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory  | songs until I write the song
Bitnet:           [e-mail]  | that makes the guys in
Internet:       [e-mail]  | Detroit who make the cars
SPAN/Hepnet:           43011::HIGGINS  | put tailfins on 'em again."
                                            --John Prine

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 92 17:11:06 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Mars Observer orbit
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (Frank Crary) writes:

>The Hohmann orbits assume the origin and destination are circular orbits in
>the same plane. If you account for the slight difference between Earth's
>and Mars' orbital planes, you get minimum energy transfer orbits that are
>slightly different from a ideal hohmann. Both have an apihelion slightly
>beyond Mars' orbit. One stops at Mars before reaching apihelion and
>one goes all the way out and comes back to reach Mars. Mars Observer
>is apparently on the later sort of orbit.

Of course it may also launch in a transfer trajectory before or after the
perihelion of this orbit, i.e. might first approach the Sun a bit closer
than Earth, pass the perihelion and go on to Mars.
 Hartmut Frommert                 <[e-mail]>
 Dept of Physics, Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60, D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany
                                           -- Eat whale killers, not whales --

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 92 22:06:10 GMT
From: Dave Rickel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mars Observer orbit
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dave Rickel) wants an explanation of Mars Observer orbit

Thanks for the explanations.  Two-dimensional thinking again--Kirk would have
kicked my ass (:-).


david rickel
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 92 21:11:27 GMT
From: David Knapp <[e-mail]>
Subject: Pioneer Venus Out of Fuel, Orbit Deteroriating
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>     ___    _____     ___
>    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
>    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
> ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Einstein's brain is stored
>/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | in a mason jar in a lab
>|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | in Wichita, Kansas.
>



Latest news here (we have a PI on one of the instruments) is that it may
go down as early as Wednesday.  Drag will be increasing until that point
and will be exceeding the capabilities of the thermal blankets on Wed.

Telemetry will continue until the drag moves the antenna away from Earth.
Even then, there is some hope that the omnidirectional antenna may still be
able to relay some entry data.






--
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Perpetual Student                                   [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 20:24:22 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering)
Subject: Population here and elsewhere?

>     With the relatively low priority and lack of basic understanding
>of our environment shown by most on this board;it is indeed merciful
>that none are actively in this area.

Excuse the hell out of me, but it has become apparent to many of
the people on this board, myself included, that many people of a
certian political mindset are needlessly condemning anyone who
disagrees with their agenda as not caring about the enviornment.
We do care about the enviornment. We just don't care too much about
power. Or more appropriately, we care greatly about the absence of
power.

>What does bringing back dinosaurs have to do with such a critical
>human dilemma as uncontrolled population growth.

About the same as population growth has to do with 1992QB-1, which
I personally would rather be reading about.

>Persons who ecourage such
>must either be quite ignorant of the future consequences or so insensitive
>to the situation that reason eludes them.

I would suspect that you are insensitive to the logic in Paul
Dietz's posts, which argue that many of the problems currently
attributed to overpopulation actually have other causes, independently
of whether population is a problem or not; also that population
growth varies inversely with standard of living, so raising people's
(specifically the female people's) standard of living and expectation
of treatment for themselves and their children would do a lot to
slow down if not reverse population growth.

You also seem to be insensitive to some of the real reasons for
high fecundity: these people are only one or so generations removed
from a time when you had to have a lot of kids, to insure the sur-
vival of a few. As good medical services become more widespread,
this ought to become less of a problem.

>Rush Limbaugh was quoted recently as stating that population growth
>was a "phoney" issue since if we move the entire world pouplation
>as it exists presently, to the state of Texas the human density would
>equal that of New York City. Pooh.. Pooh.. population growth and the
>environment are a ploy of the liberals!

I have never talked about Rush Limbaugh. I suspect you are because
you can make a fool out of him and by proxy imply that Paul Dietz
is a fool since they both have the same conclusion, even though they
have different premises. I don't see you disputing Dr. Dietz's
statements... I can send you some of them if you want. I have them
on file.

Then you will have to face the real issues, instead of the straw
man you constructed from the admittedly satirical statements of
a radio talk show host.

Oh, I keep forgetting: actors and talk show hosts are supposed to
be real experts on the enviornment these days, esp. if they agree
with all the correct politicians...

>Aside from the fact that Limbaugh is a pompus donkey;the truly frightening
>part is he has so many mindless idolators in his ranks.

Hell, I don't even listen to Rush. It isn't worth the trouble. Could
you talk about the issues instead of personal attacks for once?

I think I know the reason behind some of his satire, though:

I guess he finds it really funny that people like you who think that
only those 100 % in agreement with you *CARE* get upset about the
things he says which are clearly satire.

>Yes, if he had his way I'm sure Earth would become the planet Gideon.

Actually, wouldn't he want the solar system called the Limbaugh
system? Pity, it should be called the Fraering system instead. You can
name the planets whatever you want. I'm easy to live with. Not like
some people.

>                     Gary E. Davis WQ1F (On AO13)
>        University of Vermont  Land Liner's dial 802-656-1916
> References " The Joys of Rumination Without The Cud", Elsie circa 1965

--
Phil Fraering [e-mail] where the x is a number from 1-5.
Phone: [phone] SnailMail: 2408 Blue Haven Dr., New Iberia, La. 70560
---------------------
Disclaimer: Some reasonably forseeable events may exceed this
message's capability to protect from severe injury, death, widespread
disaster, astronomically significant volumes of space approaching a
state of markedly increaced entropy, or taxes.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:37:00 GMT
From: University Space Society <[e-mail]>
Subject: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] () writes...
>
>    Von Braun is clearly an interesting and key historical
>figure in space flight. Has a decent biography ever been
>written? (in English?)
>
>***************************************************************
>**  Bill Hiscock    [e-mail]         **
>**  Director                         (406)-994-4223          **                     **
>**  Montana Space Grant Consortium   (406)-994-4452 (FAX)    **                        **
>**  AJM Johnson Hall                                         **
>**  Montana State University                                 **
>**  Bozeman, MT 59717 U.S.A.                         **
>***************************************************************
>

Yes it has. I do not know if it has been published or not yet however.  It was
written by Dr. Ernst Sthulinger who was one of Dr. Von Braun's deptutys. I
apologize if I am so close to flame on, regarding this subject, but unless and
until some evidence shows up shut your yaps about Von Braun and war crimes
cause you are talking in thin air.

Every single conference on space development that I have been to in the last
four years (and I have been to a lot of them) ends up with a cry in your beer
session about how we need another Von Braun. In his life and his work he
was always dedicated to seeing mankind freed from this little dirt ball we live
on. I happen to know a number of the surviving Germans and each and every one
of them have worked far beyond their retirements to continue to work for our
planet having a space faring civilization.  This committment to the good
of mankind simply is impossible for those of a mind set that led to the deaths
in the concentration camps.

Until we gett someone in this business who is as committed as Von Braun was
we will continue to sit on this dirt ball and cry in our beers and verbally
stroke ourselves about our wonderful ideas about what NASA and Co or Private
Enterprise and Co should do for space. If you really want to make a difference
in the exploration and development of space make a lifetime commitment to it
and work to build the corporation or work your way through government in such a
way as to make it happen. This is what Von Braun and his team did. Von Braun
and co could have left NASA or the Army many times and could have made a
great deal of mony building ICBM's for the Air Force contractors but they did
not. They worked and hijacked and shuffled funds to put a capability in place
that allowed Kennedy to make his famous speech. It is funny that he made his
speech only after the first successful firing of the F-1 engine, an engine
program started in 1959. How many of you out there have that kind of character
or commitment?

We went to the moon on the back of Von Braun's dream.

This is my last word on this subject

Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  5 Oct 1992 18:28:02 -0400
From: William Dow Rieder <[e-mail]>
Subject: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both?
Newsgroups: sci.space

Henry Spencer writes:

>I'm not sure I agree with Mary on this one.  I'd tentatively assume that
>most of the net participants are pretty young, given the net's roots in
>educational institutions... and on the occasions when I've forcefully
>expressed my opinions about those responsible for the Challenger disaster
>in particular, the responses have been at least 95% hostile, citing all
>manner of reasons why "I vas chust following orders" should be considered
>acceptable, or at least excusable, behavior.

    The responses are not necessarily representative of all the people who
read a particular message.  People seem to be far more likely to respond to
something if they disagree with it, particularly if they are extremists
or their
sensibilities are offended.  Most of the time (in my experience and that
of people
I know), someone who agrees with an expressed opinion is likely to think
"Good point" and go on to the next post.  Responding takes time and effort, and
if you agree, why respond unless you have questions or points to add?

                    W. Dow Rieder

     When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 92 17:23:25 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both?
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:

>This sounds like a melodramatic exaggeration of something that actually
>did happen...  Von Braun was arrested by the Gestapo, the charge being
>basically that he was more interested in spaceflight than in helping the
>war effort.  Dornberger (Von Braun's boss) got him turned loose by pointing
>out that the V-2 project was blessed by Hitler himself and claiming that
>von Braun was vital to it.  It appears that he didn't bother denying the
>Gestapo's accusations... which were undoubtedly true.  Hitler was not
>himself involved in either the arrest or the release.  I've heard of no
>evidence that von Braun was interested in defecting or attempted to do so.

That is a most important fact on Wernher von Braun.

It may also be of interest that apparently he was never happy with his A-4
experimental missile to be converted to the V-2 weapon. The direct cause for
his arrestby Gestapo was that he and his team added some 65.000 (!)
modification propositions in order to delay V-2 mass production (source:
a 1960s book).
--
 Hartmut Frommert                 <[e-mail]>
 Dept of Physics, Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60, D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany
                                           -- Eat whale killers, not whales --

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 92 22:58:53 GMT
From: Andy Cohen <[e-mail]>
Subject: what use is Fred?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > the area in skylab where the crew exercise equipment was.....  With
> all the
> > hatches open, within the US areas alone, the crew will be able to
> have
> > great frisbee games or races....if they had the time.....
> >
>
>
> If any of them went to CMU when I did, they are great hall frisbee
> "football" players. You'd be amazed at the ricochet's you can get. I
> hope the switches and screens are cut out for it :-)
>
> > More importantly, as I alluded to in my prior post, a complete SSF
> provides
> > a HUGE structure.  This structure is almost 300 feet long.....Thats
> a
> > football field..... It also has power panels and radiators which
> stick
> >
>
>
> You mean it's SO big that it would have fit into the stadium of the
> Coraopolis High School!! ;-)

I said it wrong the first time and lost the attempt at humor...let me try
again...

Space Station is big, really big...
You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind boggingly big it is....
I mean you may think that Skylab and Mir were big, but they're just peanuts
to SSF....
listen....

my attempt to plagerize from Douglas Adams made me sound like one heck of a
zeolot!  Sorry...it's really JUST a job..!

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 00:29:05 GMT
From: Josh 'K' Hopkins <[e-mail]>
Subject: what use is Fred?
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] writes:

>> the area in skylab where the crew exercise equipment was.....  With
>all the
>> hatches open, within the US areas alone, the crew will be able to
>have
>> great frisbee games or races....if they had the time.....
>>

>If any of them went to CMU when I did, they are great hall frisbee
>"football" players. You'd be amazed at the ricochet's you can get. I
>hope the switches and screens are cut out for it :-)

Well, personally, I think Station hallways are plenty wide to play Frisbee
without hitting the walls.  I'd be happy to demonstrate :-)  However, space
qualified Frisbees aren't much fun.  The backup power and guidance systems
add too much weight.

>> More importantly, as I alluded to in my prior post, a complete SSF
>provides
>> a HUGE structure.  This structure is almost 300 feet long.....Thats
>a
>> football field..... It also has power panels and radiators which
>stick

>You mean it's SO big that it would have fit into the stadium of the
>Coraopolis High School!! ;-)

Hmmmmm.  Now I see why NASA doesn't say things like "It's so big, it would take
Carl Lewis almost 9 seconds to run the whole length."  Doesn't quite have the
gee-wizz effect.


--
Josh Hopkins                                          [e-mail]
     The views expresed above do not necessarily reflect those of
ISDS, UIUC, NSS, IBM FSC, NCSA, NMSU, AIAA or the American Association for the
                      Advancement of Acronymphomaniacs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 22:34:20 GMT
From: Andy Cohen <[e-mail]>
Subject: what use is Freedom?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Frank Crary) wrote:

>
> Even taking into account all these modules, nodes, etc... Freedom still
> has much less pressurized volume than Skylab. The real queation is
> that of _usefull_ volume: Every cubic meter of Freedom will (would) be
> used for a tangable purpose. Much of the space in Skylab was waste space
> (well, perhaps not waste, but it served only to give the crew extra
> elbow room...)
>

That actually was my point....Sorry if it did not come through that way...
SSF's design provides for a fully outfitted interior of all modules and
nodes using standardized rack and interface designs..The racks line the
entire interior....These standard designs will likely flow down to later
programs besides SSF....thereby minimizing nonrecurring or development
costs and emphasizing production only....

>
> Actually, Mir (once it is fully expanded) will be roughly the same
> size as Freedom, with five full-sized modules (about the size of the
> Japanese and European Freedom modules, and larger than the now-scaled-down
> American modules) and one half-sized module, slightly larger than the
> Freedom nodes.

Perhaps....however, how many watts does Mir provide?  I've heard it is not
much...certainly not enough for the same number of racks and EVA/IVA
equipment SSF will have...  OK, I guess the cosmonauts have more room to
float around....I guess that's okay..what else can they do....We have also
learned that Mir has regular power blackouts lasting around 15 minutes or
so....real fun...

> > Standing
> >(instead of floating unfortunately) in the full scale mockup of resource
> >node 2 with the cupola provides a very large area which is very similar to
> >the area in skylab where the crew exercise equipment was.....
>
> "Large"? The cupola mock up I saw was around 1.5 to 2m across. Admittedly, this
> is enough room to put in a treadmill and jog with a _increadble_ view, but
> its hardly a "large area."

As far as elbow room IN the cupola itself..it'll be very tight.  Our cupola
design was larger, but NASA selected Boeing's design...However, the cupola
will still be the place we all dream to look out of...I was actually
refering to the space from the node up into the cupola... Did you look up
inside the mockup of Node 2 or the mockup of the cupola by itself?

> >More importantly, as I alluded to in my prior post, a complete SSF provides
> >a HUGE structure.  This structure is almost 300 feet long.....Thats a
> >football field..... It also has power panels and radiators which stick
> >out....  All this structure is essential to provide living spaces, power
> >and all the other services needed for direct human activities in Earth
> >orbit......

> I'm sorry, but this is totally incorrect: These structures are _not_
> necessary. They are necessary if you want an easily expanded station,
> or if you want to get the highest possible effeciency out of the solar
> panels. But if you simply want to power the living spaces and experiments,
> and radiate away the watse heat, you do _not_ need all that structure.

Sigh... Where'd you get that from?  Measure the width of the radiators and
the space between the modules and the rotary joints.... There is just
enough clearance...
Also...I guess you could make the truss smaller...but then the solar panels
(which are also at the bare minimum for the minimum power reqs) would block
essential antennas as well as have unnacceptable rotational limits...

Frank, if you would like to debate detailed design issues email me...
Those reading a debate of this nature would not know who to believe.

My point in coming forward and giving my opinion on SSF was to offset the
seemingly persistant negative press on the program..  I'd like to repeat my
primary point....Space Station Freedom is a development program...  It is
not an end in and of itself.  It will provide the integration of
technologies necessary for PRODUCTION of manned space systems as in orbital
platforms, and living environments.....  Oh yeah...it will also provide us
with a (hopefully) permanently orbiting facility which will house more
experiments then those who are working on it can guess at...  It'll provide
consistent human viewing of the Earth.... It'll also give (the Japanese
anyway) external experimental platforms for research outside...  Lets try
to stop being so negative about it!

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 92 00:06:41 GMT
From: Henry Spencer <[e-mail]>
Subject: what use is Freedom?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Andy Cohen) writes:
>SSF's design provides for a fully outfitted interior of all modules and
>nodes using standardized rack and interface designs..The racks line the
>entire interior....These standard designs will likely flow down to later
>programs besides SSF....thereby minimizing nonrecurring or development
>costs and emphasizing production only....

Well... maybe.  Assuming they aren't considered obsolete by the time the
opportunity comes up, and they aren't overengineered for the other programs.
Remember what happened to the "standardized" Mariner Mk. 2.  Not to mention
the "standardized" Spacelab module (which is, in a loose way, the basis of
ESA's SSF lab module... but not the US one).
--
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

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End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 288
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